380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

Being the proud new parents of the Bersa Thunder 380 ACP and 9mm (UC) my wife and I have a question concerning ammo. We would like to know if any of you has settled on a particular manufacturer of either calibers of these rounds regarding the reliability factor. Please include FMJ (target) and JCP (personal protection).

Thanks in advance,

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

I have a 380 and I use only SPEER Gold Dot 90gr hollow points. Hope this helps

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

Considering that 380s are hard to find by most accounts, I would not get to particular at this point getting ammo. Just get what you can get, cause odds are you ain't gonna find the brand you looking for when your looking for it (if that made any sense).

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

ANY ammo is WAY better than none, or not enough.

A gun without ammo is a club.

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

Here is a good thread about the 380 ammo shortage.
http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=369258

I am not particular about the brand. I had good luck with a cabelas.com order. I bought them at 39 cents each where most places had them at over 60 cents each.

Good luck to you.

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

Speer, Corbon, Hornady, Federal: These are all good, quality SD rounds.

I have the bersa thunder .45 UC and a good friend has the Tunder .380. We both use Corbons and/or federal to carry. I use the Corbon 185 gr +P JHP's in my .45, but I've got a few boxes of winchester and federal 230 grain JHP's too.

The key is to practice with whatever you carry at least a little. I know its expensive, but SD round behave different in your gun than regular FMJ's do. My corbons are lighter, faster and have more "pressure" (hence the +p). It is quite a difference than my regular range ammo. Its just something you want to be familar with BEFORE you actualy have to use it.

Whatever you get, get a couple boxes for keeping and couple for practice.

Of, and if you bought the bersa new, run abour 200-300 FMJ's trhough both (dont have to do it all at once) just to make sure its well and broken in before you carry.

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

I guess i am showing my age but, do you get deep enough penetration with hollow points in a .380? I realize that ammo, particularly hollow points have improved over the last few years, does the .380 really have that much juice now?

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

I take whatever I can get in .380 at this point.

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

I buy whatever I can get for FMJ Range use. I also try pretty much anything with a name for reliability as far as SD goes. I would steer you away from Remington Golden Sabers and I would outright demand you never buy Magtech Guardian. My favorite carry ammo is Hornady Critical Defense but good luck EVER finding that again. I also picked up some Double Tap custom loads for short barrelled .380 (kel-tec, lcp) and was duly impressed with them. They do seasonal runs you can get in on. I was neither impressed nor let down by Federal Hydra Shocks or Speer Gold Dots. If I'm going to pay premium SD prices then I expect to be impressed. I've never fired a round of Corbon in any caliber. I've been curious to try the Buffalo Bore HPs.

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

My local Waldo-mart seems to have Winchester .380 all the time, whenever I'm looking for 9mm Luger, which they don't have. :biggrin:

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

I am not aware of any 380 hollow point that is a significantly better performer than FMJ. That said, I do recommend Speer Gold Dot HPs or CorBon HPs, just in case that hollow point decides to actually DO something. And make sure your pistol will actually FEED THEM RELIABLY. My 380 Bersas both fed a variety of HPs with no problem.

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

Hornady, Corbon, Speer and, Fedral is the order I personally like.

These are the shiznit when its Self Defense time.

Hornady has the least amount of flash----as far as I can tell-----this will keep me from night vision loss. Also first rate bullets. Good brass, Good reliable plrimers.. They are my first choice.

Corbon has the most kick IMHO---slight but more---Fast Bullet speed--decent bullet pretty good brass--I've had a few light strikes with the primers.

Federal=White bread--- above average on all componants as far as I can tell......never had a problem but never had an exceptional experience either.

Speer--well established reputation for an excellent bullet. The rest of their product I would say is equal to federal.

This is my own personal observations and experiences. I have no hard data to back it up.

E-A

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

I'm not well versed in the performance of sub 9mm Luger ammo, but I have read that in .380 ACP or .32 ACP, that FMJ ammo performs as effectively as any HP ammo. Basically, a compromise between penetration versus HP expansion. That said, what should a person load for self defense, FMJ or HP, in these calibers?

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

I think that a guy named Kleck has done a lot of 1 shot stopping power stats on this based on actual shootings....this Kleck guy might even be Dr. Kleck...his raw data came primarily from Detroit crimes.....a rich data base....

I'll chase more info on Kleck in a minute.

This has been my thoughts and the way I load...assuming an autoloader.

For 380 ACP: I use a JHP in the chamber.....then I follow that with the first round in the magazine as a FMJ = I do this for added high probability of a flawless feeding of the next round = I want to have at least 2 shots for sure.....the added benifit is that I get a better expanding first shot followed by a better penetrating 2nd shot.....from there onward I continue the alternating JHP, FMJ, JHP...until the magazine is full.

The 32 ACP is quite a bit less round than the 380....here I just go FMJ all the way....I want as much penetration as possible with this little bullet...remember, momentum (mass x velocity) is the largest factor in penetration....so I want to optimize this in the light weight 32ACP....FMJ has higher weight and since the velocity is fairly slow....not much chance of expansion anyway - so just stick to the FMJ.

With all the great very small....even tiny 380ACP out there today...why really even bother with the 32ACP.....that was not the case 10 years aro when the fairly revolutionary 32ACP Kel-Tec was a fantastic step up from the 22LR/25ACP pistols....within about 3 years after that the 380 Kel-Tec came out...and I made another step up to that gun/caliber.

There is no pocket (front pant pocket) pistol like the Kel-Tec/Ruger/Khar sized 380 ACP.....all under 10 ounces empty...flat and thin.....this is the only way to go in hot weather or places you can't cover up a gun with clothing...like in an office/work place.

For Reference:

32 ACP:
65 gr (4.2 g) JHP 925 ft/s (282 m/s) 123 ft�lbf (167 J)
71 gr (4.6 g) FMJ 900 ft/s (270 m/s) 128 ft�lbf (174 J)
Test barrel length: 4 in
Source: Federal Cartridge[1]


380 ACP:
90 gr (5.8 g) JHP 1,000 ft/s (300 m/s) 200 ft�lbf (270 J)
95 gr (6.2 g) FMJ 980 ft/s (300 m/s) 203 ft�lbf (275 J)
Test barrel length: 3.75
Source: Federal Cartridge [1]


9MM Parabellum:
7.45 g (115.0 gr) FMJ 390 m/s (1,300 ft/s) 570 J (420 ft�lbf)
8.00 g (123.5 gr) FMJ 360 m/s (1,200 ft/s) 518 J (382 ft�lbf)
9.1 g (140 gr) FMJ 305 m/s (1,000 ft/s) 419 J (309 ft�lbf)
9.5 g (147 gr) JHP 368 m/s (1,210 ft/s) 643 J (474 ft�lbf)
7.45 g (115.0 gr) JHP +P+ 435 m/s (1,430 ft/s) 704 J (519 ft�lbf)
Source: Sellier & Bellot[1] Vihtavuori Reloading Guide 2009 [2] Buffalo Bore [3]
C.I.P.[4]

BTW - those last 2 9mm loads - the last being +P+ seem super HOT......the hottest Remington/Winchester load I can find in +P is just over 420 ft-lbs energy......519 ft-lbs is really pushing the 9mm up there...thats 357 Mag country....that might be way too much for a lot of pistol chamber designs....+P+ is well outside SAAMI limits for 9mm!

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

There may be some new "wonder-bullet" I am unaware of, but generally speaking, hollow point bullets need at least 1000fps to have much of a chance of expansion in tissue. Since 380 and 32 don't quite get there, I would think ensuring adequate PENETRATION with FMJ might be more advisable.

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

This 380p+ ammo shows terminal energy #~ to 9mm (1200fts) and is a step up for the girls and kids from 22cal.... this should answer several questions listed above and is in stock at cabelas

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=129

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

SLV, could you elaborate on golden sabers and magtech guardian? I carry +p in both depending on the weapons(45auto) and i have found them to function reliably. Are there issues with expansion?

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

Issues with split casings sometimes out of the box prior to loading and also failure to fire with MagTech Guardian. Also, seemed to be pretty dirty.

I've witnessed the Golden Sabers be much more functional in larger calibers. My .380 rounds would "expand" no more than the starting diameter of the round (flatten, really) without denim and would practically not expand at all with a denim barrier. I saw 9mm make perfect flower petal expansion regardless of the denim. so it must be a velocity.issue

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

Dr. Gary Kleck of FLA did all the studies and has stats on 1 shot stopping power across a lot of shooting data by caliber

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

QUOTE:I've witnessed the Golden Sabers be much more functional in larger calibers. My .380 rounds would "expand" no more than the starting diameter of the round (flatten, really) without denim and would practically not expand at all with a denim barrier. I saw 9mm make perfect flower petal expansion regardless of the denim. so it must be a velocity issue. UNQUOTE

FWIW, I have never been able to get 380 to expand much in any medium. I have convinced myself now that deeper penetration with FMJ is the way to go...

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

so, this issue is more prevailant in smaller calibers? i havent experienced this problem in 45acp. yes, seemed dirty, i figured because it was +p, but fed and fired very well/accurate, where as i had unsettling feeding issues with federal self defense loads. i know this is a .380,9mm thread but the brand names stuck out for me.

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

That would be an understatement. It seems manufacturers of recent have managed to eke more performance out of them but results still tend to be underwhelming or completely disappointing regardless of design.

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

Speer Gold Dots for SD (Self Defense) ammo.

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

Thank you Rupric. I have had several .380 pistols over the years but, have never trusted them enough for daily carry. I carried a rossi .38 snub for 7 years when I was a paramedic with a mossberg cruiser backup in my jump bag and slowly made a trasition to glocks over the last ten years. My current daily carry(for the last 5 years) is a baby glock in .357 sig. Though, like you I have a real preference for wheel guns. Our only difference is I don't like Smiths. I have always preferred rugers, esp. older ones like the speed six or the security six. As small as a baby glock is I have just not seen the sense in .380 in the last 10 years or so.

Re: 380 ACP and 9mm ammo question
 

Think that the 380 ammo situation has improved, think again. Starline brass just increase their lead time by two months:

380 AUTO (Small Pistol primer) .672"-.678" O.A.L. (Backordered expected availability: 03/15/2009 )


Yikes! That doesnt look good for 380 ammo availability.

http://www.starlinebrass.com/index.php?cPath=1